Thank you very much for your link on a Vincennes/Knox County Web Page. As I do a lot of genealogy research, a county and city genealogy web site became my starting point for searching for a history of the town of Vincennes and/or Knox County, but what I found was very insufficient. After viewing many, many linked sites from my starting point, I began to fear there were no buildings of historical merit left in Vincennes, as they are not shown or even mentioned anywhere I looked. As an architect, my past attempts at requesting help online from local chapters of the American Institute of Architects regarding historical structures, or with local "historical societies" has netted little to a total lack of reply. These organizations' library resources seem to be non-existent and their roles centered on fundraising and administration of membership. Unless you are involved with such a Vincennes group and know their library sources to be otherwise, I have already found and copied the list of area historical groups who have points of contact online.
Background:
I recently acquired a circa 1906 souvenier folder of buildings of Vincennes from that time period, and naturally wondered if any or all of them still existed. The most interesting to me was a photo of an imposing church labeled "St. John's German Catholic Church" (I was able to find online a St. John's Catholic Church at 803 Main Street, Vincennes), because it is so similar in design to the major Catholic Church in Fort Smith, Arkansas built in 1898. Druiding of Chicago was the architect for the local church, which is now celebrating its centennial year. From the similarity of appearance, my interest was if the same designer was used for the Vincennes structure and about its history in the community.
Can you recommend any resources, either online or via an Inter-Library loan, about the built environment of Vincennes of approximately the 1875-1915 time frame that would give historical data for my group of building photos? I thank you in advance for any help or references you can provide.
I am attaching a file of the St. John's Catholic Church view that I have scanned from the souvenier book for you to view firsthand.
Rena Westbrook, AIA
Fort Smith, Arkansas
Subject: Re: [Fwd: St. John's Church]
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:34:05 -0500
From: NPhotoBlue@aol.com
In a message dated 98-08-23 21:03:57 EDT, you write: << File: StJohnsC.txt (51945 bytes) DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute I just received this comment about your query I posted on the Vincennes folklore page. >>
Thank you for sending this, although none of the publications you had listed are available to me locally and I will have to investigate what kind of inter- library loan might be available to me from the Vincennes / Knox County area. I have old photographs and you have some of the buildings still standing and the cross-check of The Built to The Remaining has yet to be made. I only have a 100-year old group of photos right now. I found someone who travels to Vincennes on business who promised to take a few photographs of the St. John's Catholic church, scan them and e-mail them to me, but those are not yet in hand. If the research situation were reversed, library policy what it is, there would be few to no books of photos of Fort Smith, Arkansas that could leave our local history reserve section of the Fort Smith Public Library, but many people would easily be able to confirm the remaining existance or the demolition of any once-prominent building you listed from a 1906 photo folder. And I, among others, would have postcards or other historical information about the buildings we would gladly copy and send.
In answer to your earlier reply, you are welcome to post the St. John's scan I sent earlier on your own home page, and you may want to credit the original publisher of the souvenir folder. To describe it, the innards are a continuous fan-folded paper, each leaf with one of (25) photographs of Vincennes, oval in design and set into a filigree printed border, overall size approximately 4" x 3", the fan of photos enclosed within a heavy paper folder, printed and colored to look like "leatherette". The front cover of it has an additional oval photo and reads "MINIATURES" across the top and "VINCENNES, IND." across the bottom. The back of the enclosure, which makes a very shallow little slipcase/box when the four leaves are properly folded, reads "Devised and made by Tom Jones, Publisher of Scenic Souvenirs, Cincinnati, O. Made exclusively for The Vincennes Capital, Copyright 1906 by Tom Jones, Cin., O. Just to further show you how lovely the photos are, the attached file is of the Knox Courty Courthouse. Whether it is gone or remains, it speaks eloquently of the period and locale in which it was designed and constructed.
I now know this type of folder to be a more widely-marketed item than just in the Cincinnati area, because our local library has (poor) photos made of a similar "Miniatures" folder of Fort Smith, Arkansas. I have no idea who loaned it or what collector might now have one. So now, of course, I am actively looking for my own local (Fort Smith, Arkansas) circa-1900 (?) souvenir folder!
Okay, now the plot gets thicker. I am obviously no expert on Vincennes and
I
know little more than when I acquired the souvenir folder, except I've read
some folklore stories on line and wondered about what money funded all the
lovely Indiana buildings there in the 1880s and 1890s. Late last week, I
located 2 antique photo albums, the late 1800s kinds with velveteen covers,
some celluloid trim and the metal latches...the kind with the printed
filigree
pages and cutouts for photos. These 2 albums were full of photos. Now
where
do you suppose the folks were from? Right, Vincennes, Indiana !! They
must
have sensed some cosmic vibrations emminating from me!! And there were
names
on many of the photos. It is obvious to me these albums are "lost" and
need
to be returned to some owner, whether the family is now in Vincennes or
elsewhere. I went to work posting a short query online on the appropriate
family surname boards within a genealogy forum. I searched the BLM Indiana
Land Patent Records and have the names of all the land patentees of the 3
groups of surnames for this family, all in KNOX COUNTY, all taken at the
land
office in VINCENNES. I only asked for some "match" from the likely
descendants, but responses from the very active genealogy forums have been
modest. The average genealogist would LOVE to have these photo albums
back.
No, they would KILL for them. They truly BELONG to an Indiana-based
family,
and while I now need a little compensation for my 8-10 hours of research
online, I WANT to send these photographs back to VINCENNES, if that is
possible. If there is a viable alternative to the family surname angle I
am
taking through something local, please advise me of your thoughts. The
Vincennes section of my personal museum is growing larger than planned. So
maybe there is still a third Richard who is an expert on Knox County family
photographs Rena Westbrook Subject: Vincennes - Land patent posting Richard,
This is one of my posts to a genealogy forum for the surname HOLLINGSWORTH.
Internarried names may be FREDERICK and ROBINSON. These names are for the
1821 - 1850s era Land Patent Records for Indiana. Do you know any of these
people's descendants or can you connect me to someone who does?
I posted:
<< The online site for the Bureau of Land Management has searchable land
patent records for early settlers of many east central US states. For KNOX
COUNTY, INDIANA, from a land office at VINCENNES, the surname HOLLINGSWORTH
matched (31) entries -- for Abraham, Bernard, Daniel T., Daniel, Ferdinand,
Jackson, Jesse, John, Mary, Samuel C. and Thomas, starting as early as
1821.
If you descend from any of these KNOX COUNTY land patentees, please e-mail
me.
The actual land documents can be accessed and viewed online and may provide
you with middle names, approximate dates of arrival to Indiana, etc., in
addition to geographic locations of the land settled by your family. The
site
is reached at:
http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/ >>
Rena Westbrook
(In the running for future Grand Marshal of the Vincennes Pioneer History
Parade)
Subject: Re: Vincennes - Land patent posting In a message dated 98-08-24 09:27:46 EDT, you write:
<< Oh, did you have the names of the families who belonged to those antique
photo albums you own? >>
Yes, Richard. They are the very same surnames that I looked up the land
patents for: FREDERICK, HOLLINGSWORTH and ROBINSON. I think all three
families connect to Vincennes, the photographer having been "Dunn" of
Vincennes on many, many of the photos. And as I posted, it is possible
that
one branch of the family was perhaps in Emporia, Kansas. I think this is
all
one family------I don't think people usually put formal photos of friends
in
family albums. There are a few other paper clipping and paper ephemora
things
in the album, too, including a school attendance certificate for _(boy)_
Robinson dated 1886, from a Vincennes School. One post I found on one of
the
surname genealogy boards (don't remember which of the 3 names) told of a
family member who married a woman who was Catholic, immediately thus became
estranged from the family, and moved to (?) Chicago or somewhere else. This
is my speculation of how things such as these valuable family artifacts get
so
misplaced 4-5 generations later. However, since the photos date from the
1880s or 1890s, I would hope that the right descendant of these Vincennes
families would recognize their own family names.
As to the names, I told a local friend who is an excellent historian and
who
connected me with the modernday Vincennes busines traveller who will
probably
take my photos that I need for me, in talking about the mysterious little
souvenir photos, that I had a contact to make a query of (meaning you) and
that "Richard the Librarian" said this and another person, "Richard the
Historian" would know about the other. He asked if everyone in Vincennes
is
named Richard, which of course, led to us becoming quite silly and
theorizing
about "Little Richard", "Richard the Lionhearted" and a host of other
"Richards" all being from Vincennes. Sometimes at 1:00 AM, messages online
can become quite creative. Or maybe that's cretean.
Okay, onward,
Rena Westbrook
Subject: What Started This All
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:25:44 -0500
From: NPhotoBlue@aol.com
To: rking
Attached file is a scan of a picture postcard of Immaculate Conception
Catholic Church of Fort Smith, Arkansas (parrish started by Irish Catholics
in
the 1850s. The bishop who came here was one of three men ordained together
at
St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC and then assigned to Little Rock, Arkansas.
The population of Fort Smith in 1850 was about 450 people).
The first building housing the Irish Catholic congregation was a small log
building dating from the 1850s (outgrown and abandoned during the Civil War
years), The second building dating from 1867 was a white wood frame
building
later damaged by a 1898 tornado. The second building was then moved, damage
repaired and it used for a meeting place for the parrish in their complex
of
buildings near the new IC church building. The second building was sold
and
moved again at a later date, used as a church by a black congregation for
years, then as a community center. It has been "bricked" but is still
standing today.
This third building for the parrish, was built in 1898. The architect was
Druiding of Chicago. It occupies and commands a position of great
prominence
at the head of Garrison Avenue (the town's main street) on slightly raised
ground, approximately 13 blocks east of the Arkansas River which forms the
Oklahoma/Arkansas border. It is always referred to as 'the head of the
avenue." Except for modifications to the front doors to ornate metal
doors,
evolved changes in the landscaping, etc., this is how the church building
looks in 1998, the year of its Centennial Anniversary.
To me, the St. John's Catholic Church of Vincennes, Indiana has some
similarities of appearance to this church, both being of an American
vernacular "Gothic revival" style. You have not told me the date of
construction of the St. John's building, but I know it to be prior to 1906.
Now you have "been" to Fort Smith to see Immaculate Conception church and
can
agree or disagree on any similarity. (This was my starting place and why I
bought the folder of photos of Vincennes in the first place). Are these
buildings "cuzzins" ?
Rena Westbrook
Fort Smith, Arkansas
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:59:27 -0500
From: NPhotoBlue@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:10:50 -0500
From: NPhotoBlue@aol.com
To: rking
